Accomplishments and Honesty

Me: What's your view of view of tooting one's own horn
N: What's my view of tooting my own horn? or of someone tooting their own horn?
Me: in general
N: I believe one should toot one's own horn.
*grin* and I think you believe it too.
Me: well i believe in being honest
N: yes
there's no need to be disingenuous.
if you have a skill, be forthright about it.
Me: and there's a difference between self aggrandizing and explaining a resume
N: if you are proud of something, I think it's good to be able to share it.
Me: sure
N: And one should definitely be certain one receives credit for the work one does and the result one achieves.
Me: also true
N: if I think my boss hasn't noticed the work I've done on a project, I need to tell her.
Me: right
N: Although she generally is well aware :-)
Me: that's good :-)
N: You shared with me your excitement today about the two compliments you got. This made me happy :-)
Me: that's true I did
N: But it also is the sort of thing that comes under "tooting one's own horn".
Me: I guess...
but by the same token I also don't say that because I've had these accomplishments and that you are any less of a person
N: *grin* I get sass from people sometimes because I say that I consider myself intelligent and attractive.
Me: lol but that's the truth
N: But dammit, I am intelligent and attractive!
Why should I pretend I'm not?
Me: I agree
N: Or pretend I don't like things about myself that I would like in someone else?
I like myself when I stand up for something I believe in, or when I solve a difficult problem, or when I am considerate of other people.
And I should recognize those accomplishments for myself the same as I would for my friends and family, if they did the same thing.
I feel like to do otherwise is profoundly damaging to one's psyche.
I don't think there's virtue in driving down one's self-esteem by failing to take pride in oneself and one's accomplishments.
Me: ok this is all healthy and good and I agree with you but it seems that there are many people who go beyond that
Like for the two brief examples in my last post
N: Well, you asked me for my perspective :-)
For the college president example...
Me: "I get that" and naming a building after yourself
N: It's the job of the college president to make sure the accomplishments of the university are recognized by alumni and other potential donors.
One facet of his job, anyway.
Me: sure
N: I wasn't there, so I don't know exactly what was said.
Me: sure
N: But it could be that he just isn't very adept at communicating that in a non-off putting way.
Me: that may just be it
N: Which is something that could be an issue for his job performance.
Me: I mean he was very successful
over $15 mil raised when the original target was $10mil
N: But talking about new buildings, improvements at the college, etc. are part of his job.
Yes.
Me: so it comes down to communication then
you may have a lot of accomplishments but if you toot them in the wrong fashion you could end up sounding like a jerk
N: I found this phrase from your earlier conversation interesting:
"self serving always seems disingenuous to me no matter how much like to hear it, praise slightly embarrasses me and when others toot their own horn I wonder if they truly deserve it because I wonder if I do"
I find false modesty disingenuous. :-)
Me: LOL
no I'm serious
N: I know you are.
I'm just pointing out that between the two of us, someone will have no way to win :-)
Me: to win?
N: If they aren't upfront about their accomplishments, I'll think they are being disingenuous. If they do "toot their own horn", you will.
Me: oh well that's why I'm asking you
I want to solidify my opinion and figure out what it *should* be
this is a conversation of self-discovery
N: I toot my friends' horns.
You do it too.
For me, I try to treat myself as I would any of my friends.
If I admire something you've done, I tell others about it (see yesterday's lunch convo re your blog)
If I've done something I'm proud of, I share that as well.
Me: that makes sense
N: I told people that J got into graduate school.
Me: that's something to be proud of
N: Exactly :-)
And I told you when I got my first semester grades back.
There's no reason to pretend you aren't proud of the things you accomplish.
Me: but you also say it without putting people down
N: Well, it's got nothing to do with putting people down.
That's not tooting your own horn.
Me: sometimes I get the feeling that people toot their own horns to specifically say "I'm better than you because you haven't done this"
N: That's slashing somebody else's tires.
Me: yeah and I hate that
N: Stick to your own damn car!
Me: lol I like that
another example, my secretary has told me in the past that I get this patent law stuff because I'm smart and that she couldn't possible do the same and I was dumbstruck
N: See, she's putting herself down there. *growl*
Me: I mean just because I did something does not mean that she couldn't
N: To me, that's as bad as trying to puff yourself up by putting someone else down.
There's enough merit to go around. Your accomplishments do not detract from mine, nor do mine from yours!
Good LORD, people.
If your son learns to read, that doesn't mean your daughter can't.
There's plenty of achievement to go around.
Me: well there is a line crosses in speaking your accomplishments and I guess it comes down to being aware of that line
and I've been self conscious about it for that reason that I don't want to cross that line and don't know where it is
or at least I hope not to cross it
N: It's slightly different for everyone.
You need to have some social awareness.
Me: I suppose - and that's the difficulty
the line is in different places for everyone
I suppose you can't please everyone
just live for yourself
N: *grin* You know in yourself what your motivation is.
But I do believe you should be aware.
However, I don't think that you are responsible for everyone else's feelings.
Me: sure
N: For example, you shouldn't be bad at patent law in order to make your secretary feel better.
Me: lol
that's true
I'll do that on my own terms
N: *grin*
Me: *ponder* *ponder*
hmmm
N: This is for me, a matter of honesty.
Don't pretend to be bad at something to make people around you feel better about themselves.
Me: oh yeah
N: But I'll admit, I do sometimes censor myself.
Me: on what occasions?
N: I won't talk about my GPA around people who have been having trouble in the courses I take.
Me: hah sure but that's just tactful
N: Exactly.
But you better believe I put it on my resume!
Me: true
I guess it depends on the context and the intent
and how people interpret that is out of your control
N: It's not inherently bad to do.
Me: what is in your control is how you deliver your message
and when
and to whom
and why
N: If you put your GPA on your resume and the HR person reads it and feels bad in comparison, that's not your fault.
Me: well yeah
N: On the other hand, if your friend is struggling in Physics, you don't say "Well, I got an A+ in it. It wasn't hard at all!"
Me: but that's different from standing up in front of several hundered people and saying I understand why this person got this award for pottery and you can't
N: But you don't always know what will and won't upset people. You'll sometimes step on toes.
Me: that's true
N: Did she say "and you can't"?
Or did you add that in?
*grin*
Me: you know I don't remember now
*sigh*
N: one of the first things that Stone said was quite emphatically "I Get this""This is important"the implication being this is more important that YOU know
In your earlier conversation, you said "implied"
Me: well to her credit it was not a prepared speech
so maybe it didn't come across as she intended
and I did say I liked what she had to say
didn't I?
N: you did :-)
And maybe it was in response to a specific criticism she had heard of the recipient of the reward... there are any number of possibilities.
Me: well thank you N
I think you've made me focus on this aspect a bit more
I'm a good person and, dammit, people like me!
N: And you like yourself
liking yourself is actually a good thing.
Me: I think I do
I can see where I can improve
N: People admire those who try to be better people, right?
Me: I don't know
I never asked
N: fair enough
Jonathan: you only ever read about people who made themselves better not about those who are in the process
and if you've already made yourself there isn't much more to go
lol
N: there's always more :-)
you're not done 'til you're dead!
Me: that depends on what you're aiming for :-)
but I'm with you on this point
that said the only introspection that I am aware of are my own
which is to be expected
that's why they call it "introspection"
N: *nod*